5 Responses

  1. Derek Williams
    Derek Williams at |

    “Are gay folks trying so hard to win the tolerance of heterosexual folks?” Well hell yes, because currently we are being imprisoned for it in 76 countries and executed at law in 10 of those, all under Islamic jurisprudence. Acceptance would be nice, but tolerance is essential to avoid inflicting misery upon 350 million gay people (= 5% of the 7 billion global population).

    Meanwhile, in 26 countries LGBT people can legally marry the same sex, and in over a hundred more, have equal rights to the heterosexual majority. There is therefore a huge planetary disconnect on the treatment of LGBT minorities. Criminalisation of same-sex relationships alongside other mistreatment at law is in violation of the International Charter on Human Rights, to which many of these countries are themselves signatories.

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  2. edward george
    edward george at |

    derek i hear what you’re saying, but i think the author has it locked down – if joyline is saying that tolerance is, in fact, a kind of limit, and a queerphobic one at that, then it isn’t really going to help us, not in the short or long or even short run.

    the sense i get from your very insighful piece, joyline, is that it’s part of a slippery slope of internalised hatred, shame and fear of ourselves if we invest in it, and it also gets in the way of the maximally necessary, non negotiable demand for an all inclusive equality before the law – local law, state law, national law, international law, scriptural law.

    that’s the sense i get from this text. tolerance is just one more prison, albeit with the disturbing difference that it is one that we oftentimes help to construct, and can only function on the condition that this construction, this building of a prison, must be completed by us, and that the location of this prison is, by mutual consent between heteros and queers, within us.

    and yes, our brothers and sisters are being killed, are killing themselves, quickly, slowly, here and there, so maybe even a minimal demand such as tolerance is a balm and as such ought to be aspired to, fought for, welcomed. the reality though is that the linear nature of tolerance is such that one only has to cross or trip over or become entangled in the all too many layered lines of tolerance to be the recipient of some kind of violence or other – can we call this violence the violence of tolerance, and take it to include the slow, lifelong drip of public and private degradations, the quicker but no less brutal physical assault, the grinding repressive force of always always always always having to keep oneself and others in check?

    tolerance might be a balm, a band-aid, a necessary temporary measure, but as a political or ontolgical or ethical demand demand it doesn’t come without the very conditions that undemine the unconditional , historical claim for eqaulity.

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  3. edward george
    edward george at |

    oh, and as regards the ‘winning’of tolerance. isn’t it somewhat like accepting what comes with stepping out of, or over the line of tolerance, a kind of consensual knowing ones place and construing that knowledge as a reward for a very partial belonging?

    and one last thing: one could argue that in europe and north america, at least, tolerance is present in the recent phenomena of queer marriage and other institutionalising of equality within state and scriptural law – and sure, that’s a struggle and an ongoing one, at that. but think of the corresponding phenomena of the murders of our trans brothers and sisters, especially those of colour, particularly in north america, and its enough to suggest that even, or especially in countries where tolerance is present, this presence is not without its destructive aspect.

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  4. edward george
    edward george at |

    could’ve corrected my grammar b4 posting, but hopefully the meaning is still there.

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  5. edward george
    edward george at |

    Derek, just checked your website – very impressive indeed.

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